Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/01/1995 05:03 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
February 1, 1995
5:03 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman
Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chair
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Scott Ogan
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lyda Green
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
United Fishermen of Alaska Presentation
* HB 113: "An Act relating to reports by fishing vessels that are
not registered under the laws of the state."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
WITNESS REGISTER
JERRY McCUNE, President
United Fishermen of Alaska
211 Fourth Street, Suite 112
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: 586-2820
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided UFA presentation
KARL KUCHER
UFA Board
P. O. Box 95
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: 262-2519
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional UFA testimony
ARNI THOMPSON
UFA Board
3901 Heary Way Northwest #6
Seattle, Washington 98107
Telephone: (206) 547-2560
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional UFA testimony
BRUCE SCHACTLER
P. O. Box 2254
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: 486-4686
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional UFA testimony
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 128
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: 465-3424
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 113
PETE ECKLUND, Aide
Representative Bill Williams
State Capitol, Room 128
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: 465-3424
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on HB 113
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison
Commissioner's Office
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
P. O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99811-5526
Telephone: 465-6143
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113
LONNIE L. HAUGHTON, Secretary/Treasurer
Ketchikan Trollers Committee
P. O. Box 3006
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: 225-1289
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113
BRIAN WARMUTH
P. O. Box 6382
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: 225-0432
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113
DAVID K. OTTE
P. O. Box 5103
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: 225-7814
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113
GARY FREITAG, Research Evaluation Manager
Southeast Region Aquacultural Association
P. O. Box 3181
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: 225-6910
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 113
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 113
SHORT TITLE: REPORTS BY OUT OF STATE FISHING VESSELS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS,Grussendorf,Kubina,Mackie
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/23/95 116 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/23/95 117 (H) FSH, RES
01/25/95 136 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA
01/26/95 148 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MACKIE
01/30/95 179 (H) FSH WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE,
RULE 23
02/01/95 (H) FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-5, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Special Committee on Fisheries was called to order by
Chairman Alan Austerman at 5:03 p.m. Members present at the call
to order were Representatives Moses, Davis and Elton.
Number 026
JERRY McCUNE, President, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA),
testified that UFA is made up of 21 different fishing organizations
and aquacultural groups from around the state, from Southeast to
Bristol Bay. He said, "That gives us a pretty well-rounded
perspective of the state. It does make it difficult to work at
times, but we seem to get through it and work together on a lot of
issues."
MR. McCUNE stated that UFA's mission here in Juneau is to track
legislation, promote the seafood industry and the commercial
fishing industry. He said, "my job is to track not only good and
bad legislation, but also to bring parties together to work. There
seems to be some misconceptions going around lately that the
commercial fishing industry isn't willing to work with everybody.
We are willing to work with anybody." He then described his role
in working with the different groups in the Governor's Transition
Team.
Number 108
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN noted for the record that Representative Ogan
had arrived at 5:05 p.m.
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON asked Mr. McCune his definition of a good
bill.
MR. McCUNE said, "Well, there are bills that let's say we disagree
with and one of those such bills we see on the Senate side right
now," regarding SB 49. He added, "I can pretty safely say that the
fishing industry does not agree with that bill."
MR. McCUNE talked about the Transition Team recommendations saying,
"But there is some recommendations to change different things, such
as the way we appoint, and the way we confirm. That seems to be a
real problem that were putting our name forward here in January for
the board of fish. Then we try to confirm them in May, in joint
session. Which we all know that sometimes it becomes difficult
because they've already sat on two board meetings and they've taken
votes either way and it seems that they're judged on the way they
voted from one area to the next. That is a big problem."
Number 167
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN recognized Senator Green and invited her to sit
at the table.
KARL KUCHER, UFA, stated, "What I'd like to do is walk you through
a little brochure that we put together in cooperation with the
seafood industry, municipalities and fishing groups, with
cooperation from the Alaska Seafood and Marketing Institute (ASMI)
and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)."
MR. KUCHER added, "On the front page it says that Alaska Seafood
Industry, and I think that's very important that we're just not the
fish catching industry or the fish processing industry or the fish
transportation industry or the fish freezing industry, but we're
the seafood industry and we encompass a lot of businesses. Supply
businesses, small businesses throughout the state benefit. I think
it's one of the most important things to think about, the seafood
industry, not just the seafood catching and processing industry.
As we go through this, sixty percent of seafood production from the
United States comes from Alaska. It's a huge figure. Bigger than
the rest of the United States put together."
MR. KUCHER indicated that in 1993, Alaska exported $1.5 billion in
seafood worldwide. He said, "That goes a long way towards helping
the trade deficit. The seafood industry creates jobs and income
for more Alaskans and more regions of the state than any other
private industry. We are the largest private sector employer in
the state of Alaska, generating the equivalent of 33,000 full-time
jobs. Jobs is a major source of pride for a lot of communities
around the state. When Wildwood prison was going to close and we
were going to lose 30 jobs in Kenai, that was a huge uproar. Or if
certain businesses were going to move out of town or the timber
industry was having problems with the jobs, people lose jobs and
it's nice to note that the seafood industry produces the equivalent
of 33,000 full-time jobs. We would not like to lose any of those
jobs. As a matter of fact, we'd like to make more of those jobs.
Somebody at our board pointed out today, as a seafood industry
enters into more value added processing, doing more with our fish,
we'll be creating more jobs, as we look to do more with our fish.
That's one of the upswings of perhaps lower prices, that it will
create more jobs as we do more with our fish."
MR. KUCHER said, "Forty-seven percent of Alaska's private
employment is related to seafood. As you open it up, you will find
a map of Alaska. The major points in there is 80 percent of all
fishery license holders are held by Alaskan residents. That's
people that live in Alaska, pay taxes, buy their goods and services
and take their kids out to the movie and buy them shoes for school.
If you have a bad fish season, you're still here, you still live
here. You find somewhere else to put food on your table. We're
Alaskan residents, we're here, we're a self-sufficient part of the
community. We're not on payrolls, we're out there doing our own
gig and taken care of ourselves. Not looking for a handout, by any
stretch of the imagination, as evidenced by the fact that state
revenues gain from commercial fishing outweigh state expenditures.
Basically, we're an industry that pays for itself. We're a self-
sufficient industry that provides a lot of jobs to Alaska. It's
very important, we pay our own way."
MR. KUCHER said, "What I think is amazing is one of the smaller
numbers in there. Nine percent of private industry income in the
Anchorage/Mat-Su area comes from the seafood industry. Not quite
10 percent. Anchorage is a fishing community. That's a major
portion of the Anchorage/Mat-Su private industry income, comes from
the seafood industry. You don't think of Anchorage as a seafood
port, but in terms of air freight, it's a major port. A lot of
seafood goes through Anchorage just in terms of the air. Tend to
think of Anchorage as a seafood port, when you start thinking about
flying seafood products around. A lot of private industry income
comes from the seafood industry. On the back page, you'll see
broken down by Senate district, the number of license holders, crew
members and raw fish tax generated in each of those areas. These
are all the license holders, not just salmon permit holders."
Number 293
ARNI THOMPSON, UFA, testified about the crab fishery saying, "I
would like to point out in terms of that sector of the industry,
shellfish, in the Westward section, that has an ex-vessel value in
1993 of $242 million. And just to point out too, in terms of raw
fish taxes, as part of the shorebased seafood industry complex, it
contributes approximately $12 million in raw fish taxes."
MR. THOMPSON confirmed, "My concern in coming before you today is
that I find it rather peculiar, particularly being a representative
of the Bering Sea Crab industry, to find that there is sort of a
growing sentiment coming out of parts of the Alaska Legislature,
that essentially is an anti-Alaska seafood industry sentiment.
That is starting to impact, for instance, the fish and game
research and management budget of Bering Sea crab fishers. I am
amazed at it coming up before the Alaska Legislature now, because
I know the Alaska Legislature essentially supports other resource
industries, such as the oil, timber, and the tourism industry. We
all know that industry is so important to any state. I just wanted
to flag that, the seafood industry is really beginning to notice
this and through something like this Alaska Seafood Industry
brochure, we're starting to take steps to better educate the Alaska
Legislature and the Alaska public about the importance of the
industry as a statewide industry and an important economic
generator of the State of Alaska."
Number 344
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked Mr. Thompson if he could,
"articulate a little more specifically what kind of negative
sentiment is coming out of the legislature in the form of bills or
action."
MR. THOMPSON responded that it could be characterized as statements
coming from key legislators from the Anchorage area. He said,
"Maybe that is a focal point, maybe it's due in part to the fact
the seafood industry has not done the job of educating that
particular urban area as to the importance of the seafood industry.
As you have just heard, Anchorage is actually a hub, it's a cross
roads of the seafood industry, a major part of the seafood industry
in Alaska. All the fisherman and the processing workers travel
through Anchorage to get to their destinations. Anchorage is
actually positioned excellently to become more of a conduit in the
seafood industry and to further sell its products and services to
the seafood industry."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN followed up by asking Mr. Thompson if he felt
there was a particular issue that is driving that sentiment.
MR. THOMPSON indicated that some of the sentiment was from the
sport fishing community.
Number 388
BRUCE SCHACTLER, UFA, pointed out that much of the income of
fishermen is spent in Anchorage. He said, "An unbelievable amount
of money gets spent there. It's all, 100 percent derived from the
commercial fishing. There is no credit given for the millions of
dollars worth of Christmas presents. The credit is not given."
MR. SCHACTLER then talked about ADF&G's budget, saying "We're
losing and have lost and with further cuts we are going to have
major fishing opportunities lost. Many of the things in the
budget, I would have to consider an expense. We like to think the
commercial fishing and resource development and management is more
of an investment to the state. With the lack of a budget,
management is going to become so conservative, we are going to have
many opportunities to the fisherman lost, which is lost revenue to
the state, which is lost revenue all the way down to the smallest
of the coastal communities. It's something I would encourage this
committee to specifically ask the department for. A hatchet list
that the state of Alaska is going to lose in opportunities."
MR. SCHACTLER then talked about the raw fish tax and money spent on
diesel fuel and groceries. He said, "These are the things you
don't see, the hidden things that really drive this state and local
communities. If you really want to get down to where the equity is
in the state, you look at the equity in the small businesses
themselves. We just figured out in Kodiak alone, just in, if you
gave one guy each a seine on the back of his seine boat, not all
the other types of gear, that's around $7 million right there.
It's such a huge picture and it doesn't get looked at close enough
by the community and it's the kind of word we're trying to get out
to the legislature that...or the majority, that in the Anchorage
area and in the rural Alaska legislators hear this every day,
beaten on their desks and their doors. The rest of them don't
quite hear it all. That's the word were trying to get out."
Number 472
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "I think that sometimes we tend to
forget that more fishermen live in Anchorage than any other
community in the state. So Anchorage is actually the largest
fishing village in the state. Other than the oil and gas industry,
the fishing industry is the only one that is revenue positive to
the state. The only one that puts more into the general fund than
it takes out." He also reiterated, "The more we diminish the
ability of the ADF&G to do good research on the biomass, the more
conservatively they're going to have to manage that biomass and the
less fish in resource that's going to be available to commercial or
sport fishermen."
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN confirmed, "That the industry does need to
expose itself to the other legislators, but it also needs to expose
itself to the rest of Alaska. The legislators are responding to
their constituents when they are responding to any particular
issue. When you have over half the state population living in one
fishing community, like you say, of Anchorage and that community
all decides to become sport fishermen, then you as commercial
fishermen have something to contend with. I urge you not to just
spend your time here at the legislature, you've got to spend your
time with the rest of the state of Alaska."
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called an at ease at 5:35 p.m.
Number 517
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN reconvened the meeting at 5:38 p.m.
HFSH - 02/01/95
HB 113 - REPORTS BY OUT OF STATE FISHING VESSELS
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, prime sponsor of HB 113, stated, "HB
113 will give the Board of Fish the authority to adopt regulations
concerning foreign fishing vessels transiting or in state waters.
This legislation would allow the board to require foreign fishing
vessels to report to the Department of Fish and Game the quantity,
species and origin of fish on board.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS further stated, "This bill would assist
ADF&G in their effort to collect data on our border fisheries. HB
113 could provide ADF&G with additional in season management data,
providing the state with some significant and timely information
that was previously unavailable to our fisheries managers. HB 113
will also help protect the state's interest by deterring potential
illegal fishing in our waters. Section 2 of the bill directs the
Board of Fish to consider for adoption, before May of 1996, the
provisions of HB 113 concerning foreign fishing vessels present in
or transiting the waters of Southeast Alaska.
Number 540
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS stated that the bill has a zero fiscal note
and asked the ADF&G if this was realistic, considering there would
probably be an additional workload.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS indicated that the ADF&G will be testifying
on this bill.
Number 547
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Representative Williams if there was any
relationship to this bill and the fees being charged for vessels
transiting through Canada last year?
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS indicated there is not. He said, "What is
happening now with the fisheries, is that our border between Canada
and Alaska/US border is right off the Cape Muzon and Cape Shakan
which is in Alaskan waters. It comes very close to both the capes
and there's a lot of fish that go by early on. In the earlier
years there was maybe a dozen trollers coming through and fishing
in that area. Now we're getting over a hundred boats fishing that
area. I guess last summer, there were approximately 40 trollers a
day anchoring up and fishing that area. We're not getting any
information or very little information on how much fish are being
caught in our waters."
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked, "Do we have the authority to do this?
This isn't an international issue, is it?"
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS responded by saying that we do have
authority.
Number 571
PETE ECKLUND of Representative William's staff indicated that he
had just received a written legal opinion from the drafting
attorney that there is legal authority to do this.
Number 579
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS expounded on Representative Ogan's earlier
question. "It's my understanding that this has nothing to do with
fees, but deals with collecting data. It deals with the amounts of
fish so you can adequately determined where they came from and how
many pounds and of what species are collected."
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS indicated that what we would like to do is
deter any fishing in our waters by foreign fishing vessels. He
said, "we would know when they anchor and come into state waters
and how much they have of a species and where they caught it and
when they leave. We would also know what they had. This would
help deter any foreign fisheries going on in our waters."
Number 594
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked, "How does that apply to a boat
registered in Washington State or Oregon?"
MR. ECKLUND responded that a vessel registered in the state of
Washington, Oregon or any other state would be considered a foreign
fishing vessel.
Number 602
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Commissioner's Office, Alaska
Department of Fish and Game, indicated that ADF&G supports HB 113.
He said, "The boundary between the U.S. and Canada in this
particular area, runs right to a point of land on the south end of
the Prince of Wales Island. So you have Canadian fishing vessels
fishing very close to Alaskan waters and then coming into Alaska
waters to spend the night. That's the issue of concern, that this
boundary area is still in dispute and with the present arrangement,
it allows the Canadian fishermen much more access to waters in very
close proximity to Alaska, than the reverse. Alaska fishermen
cannot approach Canadian land to nearly the same extent. This is
the area that is governed by the Pacific Salmon Treaty. So there
are fishing annexes which govern the amount of harvest that can be
taken in certain areas by the respective fleets and certain time
periods and of certain species. That is the concern."
MR. BRUCE then addressed the zero fiscal note saying, "What we
would propose doing is working with the Board of Fish in adopting
a regulatory regime for this, that would not provide for large
costs on the department. We'll have to be careful on how we design
this, because 40 vessels a night reporting, it could get to be a
big workload. But we think we can work out a method where it won't
provide a large burden on our staff, which are already very
strained during the fishing season.
Number 637
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON asked in regard to foreign fishing vessels,
"Are there any federal commerce problems that we may have without
equal treatment of a Washington State boat versus some Alaska
boat?"
MR. ECKLUND indicated that the drafting attorney didn't bring that
issue up. A vessel registered in Washington, Oregon or California
typically is not going to bring any fish into the state.
Number 648
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS suggested that ADF&G and the sponsor of HB
113, reconsider the zero fiscal note, as this effort may be quite
burdensome.
Number 666
LONNIE HAUGHTON, Secretary/Treasurer, Ketchikan Trollers Committee,
testified via teleconference saying, "We asked for this bill as a
means of addressing the situation of a large increase in the
presence of Canadian trollers in the past five years."
MR. HAUGHTON said, "He had spoken with ADF&G about the impact the
Canadian's are having in this fishery and the lack of reliable
data. We're not asking the state to get involved in enforcing
rules or regulations or activities in the disputed boundary...."
TAPE 95-5, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. HAUGHTON continued, ...."The other question that came up about
what a foreign fishing vessel is. Any fishing vessel from
Washington State or Oregon State for example, that came to Alaska
in any fishery that I know of, registers with the state of Alaska
to participate in the fishery. Any fishing vessel or tender that
is U.S. registered, that comes into Alaska to participate in the
fishery in any way, does register with the state of Alaska.
Therefore, they would not be considered a foreign fishing vessel
under this regulation, as we understand it."
BRIAN WARMUTH, testified via teleconference saying, "I have fished
in the area for the last 15 years. When I first started to fish,
it was an oddity to see Canadian trollers. Over the last four or
five years, the fleet has grown by leaps and bounds. It's not
uncommon to see over 100 boats working the 50 fathom edge out in
front of the (indisc.) Cape there. Many of these boats are
refrigerator vessels and largely stay out for some time. I think
this bill will give the ADF&G an important management tool to get
a handle on what the catch is out there. Because their fishing in
a disputed zone that historically has been fished almost
exclusively by Alaskan boats."
Number 051
DAVID OTTE, troller from Ketchikan, testified via teleconference
saying, "I've seen about the same thing that Lonnie and Brian have.
There is no way to tell how many Alaska fish they're catching,
without some way to get records from them. It's obvious the
Canadian government is not willing or able to let us know how many
Alaska fish are being caught there. I think this bill would help
do that."
Number 076
GARY FREITAG, Research Evaluation Manager, Southern Southeast
Region Aquacultural Association and member of the Pacific Salmon
Commission stated, "I've had to work with the information that we
currently receive from Canada dealing with the harvest on both
sides of the border. I think that one of the things that has
always been real clear, is that the amount of data that we do
receive from the Canadian side is always been fairly slim. I think
we've seen some discrepancies in the little that we do receive,
that we are suspicious of the reports. So I think it's really
critical that we get more substantial data and accurate data to
verify some of the things we're seeing in the data bases. I think
it's quite important that this be a provision that allows the board
to set up a mechanism to gather this information. I am in full
support of this. I think it will be a real benefit to the people
like myself, who have to work with the information and try to set
who's catching whose fish and where they are being caught and where
they're migrating too."
Number 120
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON stated, "Subsequent to my question about the
federal commerce clause, an opinion was passed out, and I think it
speaks directly to the question that I asked and I'm comforted by
the opinion. As long as the caveats within the opinion are
followed, I don't think we have a problem."
Number 128
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES made a motion to move HB 113 out of
committee with individual recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN recommended that the Fish and Wildlife
Protection, Public Safety people be brought in to address the issue
of whether or not the other agencies have the resources to enforce
it.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was any objection. Hearing none,
the motion passed.
Number 150
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the meeting at 6:03 p.m.
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